GivingSpace Meeting Notes

Asilomar Conference Center

Contributed by Suresh Subrahamian

Monday, Sept 16, 2002

General Introductions

  1. Matt Hamilton, Omidyar Foundation – what was making it work was not technology but community.
  2. Gautam Patil,  Charity Focus has has 3 focii – connecting NPOs to networks, Pledge page, and community ecommerce.  How to empower remote communities to connect artisans to markets and the transactions.  The model is completely volunteer-based. How to sustain and scale that model. 
  3. Paul Chafee, United Religions Initiative.  Clergyman with the United Methodist Church.  Interfaith world – started Interfaith Center of Presidio.  …the story of United Religions that can bring about peace in the world.  200 local circles in 40 countries are each working on their own agenda.  Uses appreciative inquiry extensively.
  4. Eugene Eric Kim – starting Blue Oxen associates.  To understand how communities share knowledge, and community knowledge practices.  Started writing about Open Source software.  Provide set of community tools in an ASP model to non profits and communities to do their work better.  Doug Englebart? Work in bootstrap institute and the Open Software.   
  5. Michael Gelobter – Redefining Progress.  Social and environmental sustainability think tank. Create tools for communities and organizations.  The idea of common assets, that are owned by the communities.  In the late 1800s there was the process of turning land and assets into the hands of the corporations.  Now we are doing the same with genetic information, bandwidth, etc. are being moved into corporations.  So these are commons that are being given to narrow interests.   Claiming and connecting are the two activities that they believe needs to be done to protect common assets and benefit the most.   Community indicators manual is one of the better selling products?
  6. Richard Miles – marketing of innovative educational materials….noticed a shift in world view from we need science and tech to manage the world to the view that the world is a great self-organized and managed system and the problems are from our efforts to manage it….focus became how to change the perceptions about this – fulcrum concept – is our relationship to the planet – after a point everything that was cheap becomes expensive – like air, water etc…so the cost of fixing things is all included in the growth curve…we don’t have a growing economy, but a false sense of it…managed “innovative medicine” conferences for 4 years…the primary disfunction in our times is lack of connection and touch in our lives.
  7. Siegfried WoldhekNabuur, NetherlandsDreamcatcher, drawing. CEO of World Wildlife Fund in Netherlands for 8 years, 750k members.  There are folks who want to volunteer, give..how to get them to the right connections.  They want to give money and knowledge and contacts.  Organize things around places.  How to build and collect the self-organizing energy. 
  8. Cliff Figallo – How to repurpose communities and help the world. From the days of the Well – online community discussion forum…bought 1000 acres in TN, to build a community – built own houses, roads, stores, midwives, book publishing, vows of poverty, demonstrate to the world that it is possible to live this way…some of us are more reconstructed than others…why do people pay attention…markets are conversations…wrote a book on building online communities and on putting online conversations to work…
  9. Inne Ten Have – media viruses, information viruses… helping artisans and small communities making themselves stronger with an alternative to money…complementary currency…work in the area of prosthetics for limbless people…when people talk of big ideas…people laugh at the absurdity of the ideas…sniffing out land mines by rats…when you say this is my project but you can help me – people don’t help…but when you say you can have it…give it away…people work on it…work of Bernard Lietaer and the Future of Money
  10.  Jack Park – story of being contracted by the govt to build a giant windmill in Mali…found that there was a French padre who was helping people get scrap metal and build small windmills..went on to microprocessors, artificial intelligence…Scholars Companion software…underlying piece is that humans tell stories…and it is through stories that things happen…www.nexist.org/wiki…wikipedia.com…
  11. Steve Foster – Link Tank or web cabal – social layer of internet protocols – loci of identity on the web connected to people – created gopher protocol, and then veronica.. created the first search engine…index of gopher linkages…
  12. Jim Fournier  – part of Web Cabal…every database, website etc…is an island…some boats going back and forth…but no real bridges…there is a somesoet of quantum jump..to bring all this togther…digital identity is coming from the commercial space…Earth Charter…created by a network of organizations…quote from Bernard…gift economy equals community…another book called eGaia by Gary on online communities…debt based economics system is what is driving this crisis of growth growth growth…and lack of true cost-accounting…you can ignore externalities..
  13. Harold Koenig– 32 years in the Navy…medicine…health care in the US is the finest in the world…it is the health care financing that is broken…at Johannesburg 60k people appealing to the governments…the real power is actually in the communities…the real power is by giving…how can we get beyond the thinking that only big organizations can do big things…we need the institutions for specific reasons so it is not the focus that we destroy these institutions…
  14. Tom Munnecke – started with health care system at the VA…visiting scholar at the Stanford Digital Visions program….Alvin Toffler saying that community is in short supply in today’s world…noted that all participants spoke of community in their introduction.

Monday Afternoon Session

Tom Munnecke:

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    1. Rather than fighting problems let us create solutions..discover where virtue is afoot.  Discover and replicate success
    2. Opportunities – appreciating appreciation, on-line communities, network effects of transformational energy, micro philanthropy.  Smaller and smaller contributions that can be scaled and transmitted.   Organizations succeed by showing rather than telling.  The paper by the two Japanese writers….appreciative inquiry…Online communities are defined by their purpose…link communities to transformational activities…augmenting collective IQ…Transformational Energy…Joy of Giving…attention is energy…bidirectional…personal/community based…philanthropy means love of humanity…law of increasing returns…based on intrinsics of generosity, mutuality, community, trust…community happens…global connectivity…Complementary Currency…if you create a currency that is tied to community and trust…then we could continue to grow and build something that keeps growing…The Future of Money…why not a complementary currency for philanthropy?  Money as enabler not motivator…Micro philanthropy…one gift of a million dollars versus a million gifts of a $1…more philanthropists…more transformational energy…more greater potential for community and trust…much greater potential for “network effects”…how to reduce friction…working assets long distance…
    3. Trust – comes from repeated interaction – has to be established in different contexts…3 contexts – idealogical, bureaucracy, free market…
  1. Paul Chaffee: What is Appreciative Inquiry
    1. How does community work when it works.
    2. To study what you appreciate and love and hone in on what works and magnify that.  It is trying to find the sliver of light in the dark and magnify it instead of trying to obliterating darkness.
    3. Everything depends on the first question.  It sets the trend for the whole conversation.  A few things – the first one tries to relate the person to the context.  Keep asking what works here?  What do you like about the place?  The second question is what would you like more of ?  What do you like about this village, what would you like more of ? what will it look in 10 years if it were the best village?  What would you do next week to reach that 10 year goal.
    4. Trust has to do with connecting at the heart.  You become like the images you look at.  If you look at the success, you become that.  Talk about what is working. 
  2. Eugene Eric Kim: Discussion of work of Doug Englebart
    1. The concept of bootstrapping.  Org have goal call it A activity. Orgs want to improve their ability to do what they do B.  C activity is improving our ability to improve.  Focus on C then it makes a compound return on B and A.  Where are the metrics for bootstrapping ideas outcome?  Open Hyperdocument system. 
    2. What does Englebard means to this group?  Propose an Englebard-Nelson prize for people developing systems for the kind of things being talked about here.
  3. Cliff Figallo – transformational energy is governed to a great extent by how much they have a hand in creating the entity.  The communities are not all about everybody being aligned.  Conflict is important, you want disagreement. If conflict is less than 15% or greater than 40% of the total of the interaction in an online community it is problematic.
    1. Policies are important for a self-sustaining community.  The community must be involved in creating the policies.
    2. Cluetrain manifesto.  Most businesses are clueless about using the web.  Have missed the point that consumers can talk to each other, that company folks can talk to each other and to customers.  So they wrote a manifesto.  The conversation is going to happen whether you join in or not.  Organizations shouldn’t worry that negative opinions are going to be expressed.
    3. Tom’s reflection that if we tip the conversation to a win-win the space changes.  Anonymity tips it the other way. 
    4. The Siegfried story about the Rhine – farmers with flooded lands – dykes – environmentalists – dyke homes.  And the solution with the brick manufacturers who wanted clay.  One observation – the common purpose came from outside, not from the group.
    5. Harold’s reflection that conflict is good as long as people are civil, there is transparency and there is no hidden agenda.  Cynthia’s response that we need a mechanism to ferret out the devious people.

 

Tuesday, Sept. 17

 

  1. Call with Dan Connolly, World Wide Web Consortium
    1. Three revolutions - HTML revolution – culture of open exchange – I want my data back…then the XML revolution…the semantic web revolution…grounding terms in the web…take the terms that define the space and link them to urls that articulate their meanings on the web…and connect them in a way that machines can understand it…there are better ways of setting up the web, i.e. the web could have been set up in a different way, but HTML was good enough and viral and it took off..and now has 2 billion pages.
  2. Siegfried
    1. There exists a huge global demand for working on problems…and a huge global supply of people wishing to share money, skills, resources etc.
    2. This phenomenon is at a huge scale
    3. Existing institutions cannot connect these two.  They can go up to a few thousand connections at best.  So no institutional answer to it as yet.
    4. The ought to be is that this connection exists
    5. How do you even talk about it when the word for this does not exist.
    6. The internet has made it thinkable to talk about it.
    7. This is not in competition with existing organizations or a criticism.
    8. Analogy is Visa – was not set up as a competition to existing banks but as something the banks could add on.
    9. The scale is so great that no one institution can do it.
    10. We need to look for a self organizing phenomenon.  The one that comes to mind is communities, neighbors.  There is a certain amount of self interest there but it is primarily a self-organizing phenomenon.  Why does it work…because neighbors know one another and someone who may have a solution, the solution is weighed by the neighbors, and then they actually go do it.
    11. Trust is essential but not as big an issue in proximal neighborhoods.  We need to worry about it but not all that much.
    12. Nabuur – the idea that there are virtual neighbors around the world.
    13. The starting point is a problem, a common purpose.  Need to keep the villages in command.
    14. The drive and skills to make this work are present.
    15. People love to talk.
    16. Check nabuur.nl.  Ready to launch on Sept 25th.  This year 30 neighborhoods.  100 neighborhoods next year. Two years to get the self organization done, 2 years to get the self-financing done.
    17. What about problems that span more than one location?
    18. How do you get credible local agendas? 
    19. Should you be looking at communities or problems.  A community may join/access the network when faced with a problem, but would not like to continue a relationship where they are the recipients all the time.
    20. Are the people who are currently in this work going to view this as competition and feel threatened.
  3. Matt Hamilton – Omidyar Foundation
    1. The Omidyar Foundation is a family foundation.
    2. Matt’s role is technology, at least part of it.
    3. They have a view of the world they are going to test…there is work going on where people are trying to help…how do you get them to the next level.  Inform, Inspire, Engage.  The key to networking in their view is that at the point of connection diversity plays a key role.
    4. The idea of effective communities.  Where people can feel a sense of trust, feel they can speak up, a forum for meeting, where creativity can be expressed, collaborations happen.
    5. Two key overarching concepts – self organizing.  They are not about any particular problem but about communities.  Enabling environment…tools like XML, resources like a community center.
    6. The idea of community is beyond proximal.  Could be virtual.
    7. Should they use the word “enabling”.  How about evocation?
  4. Jack Park
    1. If you don’t know how to fix it, please stop breaking it.
    2. Topic Maps – are like the index of a book…they are outside of the book looking in an provide a very little bit of connection between the topics in the book.
    3. A topic is a container that includes names, occurrences, and roles played by associations.
    4. Topic maps – Siegfried was really talking about building a giant topic map of all the things.
    5. Associations are typed – an instanceof, they are pointers to members
    6. Occurences point to specific objects in information resources.
    7. How do Topic Maps relate to Douglas Englebart
    8. Englebart’s ABC Context.  A is core activity – work in the village.  B is what is above that that allows you to do that.  C is above that allows B to happen.
    9. IF lots of communities are doing ABC activities, there are ABC activities going on and they can have conversations at the different levels.
    10. Networked improved community.
    11. Knowledge Augmentation
    12. How to augment storytelling. The skill of writing is to create a context in which other people can think.
    13. Story telling rocks.
    14. If we wish to create an augmented story space, a software system with which users will write stories..
    15. Then how do we structure that story space to serve as context in which other people can think…
    16. The link from the Nabuur and Topic Maps on trying to build a space for sharing learnings and best practices…
  5. Cynthia Typaldos
    1. Lots of education and fame.
    2. David Reed’s law for the power of web communities
    3. Web Sites that have put all the pieces together – the best out there is Amazon.  Ebay is actually very primitive. 
    4. Communication Tools – discussion boards, IM, chat, shared photos
    5. Community application portals like Epinions, Evite, Ryze
    6. The 12 principles of Civilizations – Communities always form around a common purpose.  Purpose, Identity and Reputation, Governance, and communication and groups and  environmental, boundaries and trust and exchange and expression and history.
    7. Identity and Reputation.  Reputation is contextual.  Once good reputation is achieved it creates stickiness.  Peer pressure to achieve status and be recognized.  Identity makes members a part of the community and allows members to be recognizable when encountered again.
    8. Environments, interactions need a context.
    9. Governance – ranging from democracy to dictatorship.  The ability to form sub-groups.
    10. Identity and Reputation are the place to start.
    11. Has done a lot of thinking about wireless communities.
    12. How to turn theory into software – need user integration and producer integration.  Users can see applications, identity, reputation, groups, communications.  Producers can benefit from consistent setting of business rules, all applications controlled from one place, consistent management and consistent monitoring of activity.  It does not scale if people have to manage the community…it is best left to the community to manage it.
    13. There needs to be a common purpose and an application around that to have a real discussion board.
    14. www.typaldos.com/events/htm
    15. Is there anything happening in terms of open file forms or protocols out there that will allow people who share a common purpose to connect.
    16. What do people naturally do today that we can harvest or augment
  6. Gautam Patil – Community e-Commerce and introduction to Charity Focus
  7. Jan Hauser – CTO of GivingSpace
    1. Scaleable Trust Project
    2. PML is a way to express the needs of the doers
    3. Helpers and doers connected by a chain of trust
    4. Many forms of trust. Close knit, Open review and ratingby group, by Institutional Boundary, Repeated transactions, contract with informal group
    5. For the purpose of beginning – Authentication, Reputation, Accountability
    6. Scale of trust and security is a factor of all three
    7. Authentication in electronic medium – email, Verisign, Smartcard, phone call to references is plenty
    8. Reputation – authentication of those that provide rating, ratings may reflect integrity and competence
    9. Accountability can compensate for insufficient authentication and/or reputation.  E-Escrow, and some rule of law usually present.
    10. Techies often misunderstand that trust is emergent property, technology is useful but not sufficient, trusted third party quickly becomes essential.
    11. Emergent – can come and go, can wax and wane.
    12. Initial design proposal – create a space for trusteeship…individuals, organizations or informal groups.  Totally voluntary
    13. Must allow for context.  Linkage to Philanthropy Markup Language.  Spaces for explicit context of trusteeship
    14. Identity, reputation, and accountability all mixed together in our real world.
    15. All this might lead to new ways of “finding” trust and greater transparency.
  8. Siegfried
    1. Came from far, but we do it out of self-interest.
    2. Keep the group abreast of what is happening and solicit feedback and comments.
  9. Inne ten Have
    1. Would have liked to see more happen after the Santa Fe meeting.
    2. Personally would like to help create something practical, an innovation perhaps.
  10. Tom – What’s Next?
    1. HTML was a grassroots effort…in a rich environment of exchanging documents. It was not that there were 5 or 6 people created something out of nothing.
    2. One of the things that made the web take off was not http and html but the availability of a multi-protocol browser.
    3. There is a great deal of energy built up so something will happen, not necessarily the best thing to happen.